Slow timelines = ?

[toastgodsupreme]

There's a lot of stuff sitting in the contributions forums that needs to be looked over and there's an assload of tickets still floating about on core and DP side.

So why all the slowness on the timelines and the tiny updates? Not like we've run out of things to fix. I'm waiting on Melerix to take care of some stuff in the DP forums before I submit more. I mean, no point in submitting stuff if it's just going to get ignored, ya know?

[MELERIX]

Generally the big contributions needs to be tested before doing something, and for this reason you can see a lot of contributions, especially in core-side, where some of they never been committed (and yes, you can see the same in the old-forum).

why ? because when somebody make a contrubution, we hope to get feedback from L2J-Users, and from L2J-Devs obviously (if they have free time), but you can see... that in various of the contributions, we can see only "leecher-users"... they download the contributions and use they in their own servers, but most of they never report feedback to us, or never report if the contribution is nearly to retail, or retail-like.

others contributions are not committed because generally they don't have proper source, and without a proper source we can't verify if the contribution is right or not.

[toastgodsupreme]

Oh I understand that, but at the same time there's a LOT dp side that needs to be caught up on. No one's bothered to put in all the new transforms from gracia final and fix the collision issues (I've done about half of the new ones, just the ones that were of use to me since I wanted to fix things like Spirit of the Cat and other skills that no one seems to bother with). And I provided links to them, they just need to be looked over and verified (last time I checked, rocknow had made a few mistakes in the transform ids for the new spirit transforms).

There's item skill updates, that's a really small diff I submitted.

There's the sql update to remove all spell books from the merchant buylists since we no longer need to sell them (and thus, they don't need to sit in memory anymore).

There's Zak's clan gate implementation (I'm using the one from matrix, just ported over, but apparently it's teh same one, just stolen by matrix without credit).

Missing recipes (100% versions, etc).

There's lots of little easy things that don't take long to be tested yet they sit idle. And some of them don't need to be tested at all like the item skill fixes and spellbook removal. That's just common sense stuff.

And why bother with relying on the community to test things when:
1. A good portion of the community doesn't care to leave feedback but rather comes here for free "addons" for their server and that's it.
and
2. Even the devs themselves don't seem to test their own stuff sometimes. This is most noticable when something gets committed then soon after you see 1-3 commits to get it just so the server loads without errors. Granted, I was guilty of doing that once when I had assumed that my old SA rework was CT2.3 ready (how was I supposed to know that OP_CHANCE was nuked at the time? No proper trac for changes.). But still, I'm just a lowly community member so these things are to be expected.

I dunno, it's just kind of funny seeing devs do "cleanups" and dinky little updates like the dark panther thing when there are actual things waiting to be fixed.

Try to leave the cleanups to us. You guys focus on getting things working.

[MELERIX]

jajajaja is simple "not all the people will work like you"

and yes, we have various things not implemented per example: siegable clan halls (this is from C2) and what ? we can done it when we want to do it, is not a obligation

[Evilus]

well a suggestion on this is why not make a test group of community people that really test things together or alone. Wouldn't that make it commit faster. There is like l2j dev and l2j dev junior and so on. Why not make a l2j tester ? or something similar. I personally would help with that and/or apply for it because I am serious and I know there are others out there that are not in the team but do still test things and report but those things never get comitted.

[janiii]

why somebody needs a status of l2j tester to test something? you can come to forum and test and report also without the special status, or?

[Evilus]

why somebody needs a status of l2j tester to test something? you can come to forum and test and report also without the special status, or?

Well I have talked to some in the l2-dev and they say they will not commit things even if community says it works perfectly fine, and really have tested it from top to bottom. AND also I think a group like that would do some serious testing and make sure everything works as it should and also then maybe all devs will accept to commit it since it is tested. It is just a suggestion janiii, I will test and report things as always. Like i have always done.

[_DS_]

I test many things on my live and usually commit after tests. But not so many. Several things still waiting for additional info or need spending time, and still I need time to rethink many things (e.g. vitality).
For me "commit at all costs" is very bad way.

PS. Talking only about core. I even does not check DP part of forum

[Notorious]

I'm grateful for all the things you as developers do.
Especially since there's not much I can do myself since i have no idea of a) how to do it, and b) even if I learned how to do it, I wouldn't know how it's supposed to be to be retail-like.
So I depend on you to get everything fixed and retail like, since you not only know how to do it, you know how it's supposed to be!

Now, even though I'm grateful and all, I still agree with TGS about the stuff being fixed lately are cleanup's here and fixes there, and even stuff added that nobody has asked for or is really needed (the server configurator).
Somebody spends a long time making "if not (a == b)" into "if !(a == b)", or making byte out of int, or changing 1.0 to 1, or discussing how an orc gains mana by hitting on an npc or whatever, instead of fixing BIG things.

My players are constantly asking for Hellbound to be working, and I keep telling them it's coming...soon...the devs are working on it.
Then I come here, to see what's new on the Hellbound package, and it's like dead. Instead I see discussions about that orc gaining mana, or something about walls put up by a GM in some video on Youtube. Is that really important? I mean, how long has Hellbound existed on retail? Shouldn't there be enough info on it already to at least put together a package that works closely to retail? Then you can slowly get it more close to retail when you get more/better info.
And it's not like retail is a constant either. It's changing all the time. First they want all mobs to drop spellbooks and common items, then they change it all, and now spellbooks and common don't drop anymore. So the settings you set today, might be retail-like tomorrow!

I think you all should put aside everything else for a week or two, and just concentrate on this to finally get it done. If not Hellbound, then some other BIG thing missing from the game!

[_DS_]

Ppl, devs has own plans, ideas and points of interests. Sometimes they contribute "already-done" things too.

[momo61]

Now, even though I'm grateful and all, I still agree with TGS about the stuff being fixed lately are cleanup's here and fixes there, and even stuff added that nobody has asked for or is really needed (the server configurator).
Somebody spends a long time making "if not (a == b)" into "if !(a == b)", or making byte out of int, or changing 1.0 to 1, or discussing how an orc gains mana by hitting on an npc or whatever, instead of fixing BIG things.

Exactly my point lol.

There's a lot of VISUAL things that have to be taken care of first. Things that actually affect the gameplay itself. Like for instance skills ... I see close to no work whatsoever on skills except from DJMelerix. And the whole stats on armors and weapons are all messed up. I know I sound like a "whiner" but that's exactly how Notorious describes it. We see lots of things getting fixed/implemented that are not really that important for gameplay as of now since a lot of old and very very basic features are not working properly since what ? C4 ? ...

cheers

[ZaKaX]

Just give it some time, things always get done. Dev's got a life and not only L2J to work on.

[nBd]

Before pointing with fingers on other ppls, touch your own nose first.

1. It doesnt mean we are Dev's, we do all the work.
2. To be Dev doesnt mean, that we eat retail knowledge daily at breakfast. Means, we need to read and test stuff ourself before we commit anything as "retail like".

If you think more "important" stuff needs to be implemented, start writing it your own. Its not that we write or implement stuff only, because we are the Dev's. Maybe we (the Dev team) have other goals then the Community have. We want stable and clean code, you want features and much working.

I never got it why all just want to leech, but not spend or offer their own time helping the Project. Yah, there are much contributions in the Forums that never got commited, but did you ever thought about the reasons? No? You always see the "missing" Feature, we see it different. If L2J would be more unstable due to commited shit, you would bitch at us. Anyways, i dont wanna write anything more to this. Its an endless discussion with pointing to nothing.

Just 1 sentence:

Being Dev doesnt mean to work ones butt off while the others leech and bitch at one.

[momo61]

Just give it some time, things always get done. Dev's got a life and not only L2J to work on.

Zakax ... "just give it some time" isnt really how it should be. Im not saying they don't have time. They have all the time in the world. What I am saying is, the project needs a structure to proceed forward. Not to be doing a little bit of this, a little bit of that. Some changes here, some changes there.

As I am saying, there should be a structure on how to continue. My opinion is it that they (I'd rather say we but it just doesn't feel right yet) work on the missing skills, items, functions and standardization of the codes. Because it is the players on a live server who notice if something is missing. If something is int or long or byte or what not is not important for the players. What is important are functional skills,weapons,armors, items and a functional stable server.

And don't tell me that we dont spend time on the project. We (non-devs) have put forward so many great contributions and reports from live servers and they have been blatantly ignored. Reports and contributions that acutally make a difference.

Cheers

[MELERIX]

all the DEVS have life.

and this project is opensource!!!! then if you want to have some things implemented and you can't wait... then you can implement all of these things by yourself (don't wait for others) for your server, especially if you are a impatient boy...